e-petitions in Redbridge

[Mark]

I originally wrote to Lee Scott MP asking when the LA would be able to inform its citizens about their plans for e-petitions. Mr Scott forwarded my question to Councillor Prince, who has since replied, once on 7th December 2009 and again today, on 16th December 2009.

The story so far with my query goes like this:

7th December 2009

The Authority is currently being consulted on the draft statutory guidance on the duty to respond to petitions which includes a provision for e-petitions.

I understand that the consultation process will be lasting at least 12 weeks, starting 2nd December 2009 and ending 24 February 2010.

Included in the consultation is the draft Local Authorities (Petitions) (England) Order 2009, which states that it (the order) shall come into force on 1st April 2010.

A link to the consultation process and draft guidence and orders can be found here: http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/communities/petitionsresponseconsultation

The purpose of the public consultation is to seek views on whether this guidance meets its aims.

However, Question 12 of the consultation is as follows:

Initial discussions with both the local government and technology sector indicate that it would be wise to stagger the implementation of the e-petition element of the duty, bringing the e-petition requirements into force 12 months after the other elements of the duty are commenced. Do you agree? Please explain your reasons.

I acknowledge that in order to integrate a proper e-petition facility into all aspects of a local government website, including, council meetings forums and other existing web pages, it may take some time, maybe! But I don't think it would take that much to include with all website published pages, council decisions, forum pages, discussions and area meeting minutes etc, the option to click a live link in order to begin the creation of an online petition. There are also other LAs who have already provided an e-petitions facility by using an e-petitions facilitator website such as created by "Public-i" see link:http://www.public-i.info/clients.php?p_id=2&alphabet=all

I propose that the whole thing could be set up easily within 6 months of the start date for the rest of the petitions act, rather than 12. I would like to think that other on line community users would also agree that 12 months is too long to wait for an on line e-petition facility.

I hope that the citizens of Redbridge will be consulted about the draft statutory guidance, inlcuding the e-petitions. The draft guidance clearly states that:

Representative groups are asked to give a summary of the people and organisations they represent, and where relevant who else they have consulted in reaching their conclusions when they respond.

16th December 2009
Response from Councillor Prince:

the Council is aware of the statutory duty to respond to petitions. A process is well underway to establish how to proceed with the policy development aspects of the duty, specifically with regards to the development of a petition scheme and an e-petition facility and conducting public consultation on the proposals.

We are already reviewing how the e-petitions facility can be delivered using the Redbridge i platform or as you have rightly pointed out other externally hosted options including public i and are actually involved in a pilot project with Public –i and modern.gov which includes e-petitions.

We are carrying out a thorough analysis of how best to deliver the e-petitions facility and we are also awaiting further DCLG guidance (set out in paragraph 45 of the draft guidance) before finalising an e-petitions system. The decision on what approach to take lies with the Council and we will be welcoming comments and suggestions from residents before that decision is taken.

Hopefully Redbridge citizens will be consulted over their proposed petitions (including e-petitions) scheme sometime in the near future. Watch this space.

[Mark]

Latest:

I wrote to Liz Fenton (as recommended by Councillor Prince), Head of Strategy, on 2nd February 2010 requesting an update as to the latest on the council's development on e-petitions:

Dear Liz,
I wrote to Councillor Prince on 7th December 2009, and he kindly replied on the 16th and copied you in.
My request was for updates regarding the Council’s obligation to provide e-petitions facilities. You may like to familiarise yourself with his response below. As we only have 3 weeks to go before consultation ends I wondered if you would kindly respond to my questions below please?


Please can you describe to me, and update me on the progress of the “thorough analysis” the council is carrying out on how best to deliver the e-petitions facility?

I would also be grateful if either you or someone responsible would share with me the following information please:

• How many comments has the council received to date regarding the draft petitions guidance? Have they taken these into consideration when completing their own response to the draft consultations?
• Has the council actively sought the views of Redbridge citizens on the draft guidance? If so, in what way please?
• Has the council completed its feedback to the draft guidance on petitions, as a representative body, as requested on the Communities website: https://petitionsconsultation.communities.gov.uk/
• Is the council’s response to the consultation available to me under the freedom of information act? If so please may I have a copy of the council’s response by return email?

I would like to let you know that I would like to see an e-petitions facility hosted on the council website within 6 months of the final issued guidance at the very latest, rather than waiting for 12 months, as initially recommended in the draft guidance.

Thank you for your time.

Mark Mason

I received a response from Liz Fenton yesterday:

We have been progressing with developing the petitions scheme, as outlined below.

With regards to consultation on the draft guidance, we have noted a number of inconsistencies which we will report back to the department for Communities and Local Government. For example, we also feel there are issues with the definitions of what passes for 'active' petitions (from a user perspective) and numerous technical aspects to the guidance which may raise issues for both residents and the Council in the future. There is also significant ambiguity with regards to the proposed enactment date of the duty. Where CLG have previously indicated that April 1st 2010 is the proposed enactment date (for the petitions scheme), it is now very likely the enactment date will be announced after the consultation on the draft guidance.

Given this ambuigity, we have pre-empted any legislative requirement and already begun development of our own draft scheme for Redbridge. The draft scheme refers specifically to how Redbridge could operate the petitions and e-petitions scheme and thus differs to the generic scheme as set out in the draft guidance. The salient issues around (1) recourse for a rejected petition and (2) petitions to trigger a council debate or senior officer providing evidence are likely to feature prominently in the draft Redbridge scheme.

The draft scheme is currently in the policy development cycle and it is this document that we hope to consult on with residents.

We have been establishing costs for the e-petitions facility to be externally hosted and our IT department has also been researching the feasibility of running the e-petitions facility through the existing Redbridge i website platform.

The Council's response to the consultation on the draft guidance will be prepared and despatched to CLG before February 24th. At this point, the proposed response to the enactment dates are that both the petitions scheme and e-petitions facility be developed within an appropriate timeframe for individual Councils, but certainly before 12 months. As you can see by the progress we have been making, this should be much sooner rather than later for Redbridge.

If you have any further queries about how we are progressing, please get back to me or contact Jimmy Maravala who is co-ordinating development of the petitions scheme and the response to CLG on the draft guidance.


Kind regards,
Liz Fenton

Quite interesting and obviously plans are afoot, but I am yet to see any real engagement with the citizens of Redbridge on the draft proposals.
Anyone got any views? Please add them to this topic.

[Weggis]

J.F.D.I.

[Mark]

yes! I couldn't agree more!

[Mark]

Latest update, brought to my attention by DopeyF is that the Redbridge petitions and e-petitions propposed scheme will be discussed at full cabinate meeting on Monday 21st June:

Cabinet
Monday, 21st June, 2010 7.15 p.m.
I have attached a copy of Agenda item number 8 as well as the Local GOvernment final guidance with suggested draft scheme issued in April 2010.

As far as I can see though Redbridge's proposed scheme is in keeping with the draft scheme issued by the goverment on 2nd April 2010, i.e. that to trigger a debate by full council 1500 signatures are required, and to hold an officer to account 1250 signatures are required.

[Weggis]

The problem with petitions, even e-petitions is that they are open to abuse.

The council don't have the resources to go round and check that the signatories are genuine.

With e-petitions - how many different email addresses do you have, and how many could you have? Unlimited!

In late 2008 a local resident hereabouts submitted a petition that he had started, would you believe, some 11 years earlier. The signatories included a number of people deceased for several years, including his own mother, plus numerous people who had long since moved away, plus the new residents who had also moved away and the even newer residents at the same address.

My perception is that councillors [well, the good ones] have a "nose" for these things. If a petition is submitted by someone they know to be genuine and trust it will get debated, no mater how many signatories it has.

[Mark]

...My perception is that councillors [well, the good ones] have a "nose" for these things. If a petition is submitted by someone they know to be genuine and trust it will get debated, no mater how many signatories it has.

It's always good to use intuition I agree, but you can't just trust it will get debated when it's not a legal requirement. With the new e-petitions and petitions legislation the LA has to debate at full council once the threshold has been reached. I know what you're thinking - they'll just set a high threshold - well that's what I was thinking anyway. (Later edit: 5% of residents max allowed)

On the other point about length of time to leave a petition open for, I believe the e-petitions will be up for a maximum of 1 year - can't recall right now.

I had an email response today from legal services who are now dealing with petitions and e-petitions with an update:

"We are pursuing the provision of the e-petitions facility with a company called modern.gov. This company currently provides the Council's committee reports management system and can provide e-petitions as a standard part of that service.

There are some issues around server upgrade that need to be resolved before the e-petitions facility can go live and discussions are taking place with our IT section to achieve this. Whilst there is not a specific launch date as yet, we are not anticipating that the deadline set by the government will be exceeded."

To which I responded:

"That sounds like a sensibe solution to the required facility. I have checked it out on the moderngov website and if Redbridge implements everything that the companys says their product can do it will be a great addition to the redbridge website.

In particular, the option for petitioners to submit or attach documents, reports etc, and for signatories to add comments.

One of the most appealing features, as listed on the moderngov website, is the ability to add discussion forums to the epetition! I really think this would be useful and enable some discussion and important communication to take place between citizens regarding the said petition. But please can you ensure that the discussion forum option is configured to allow open discussion which is post moderated without the need to wait for an official to screen every comment before it is published? The current forums have only just had this feature allowed and to be honest the current redbridge forum facility is a joke because its so restrictive."

Deadline for implementation of e-petitions is something like 12th December 2010.